International Relationship Advice

Anyone want to add anything to the initial list?

Weddings in Korea: How much will it cost to attend?

Here's the question:

The principal of my school invited me to his daughter's wedding. How different are Korean weddings from Western? What kind of gift should I bring? What is appropriate to wear. Are there any big faux paus to avoid?

There are two types of weddings in Korea: Traditional Korean and a Western white wedding. If we really wanted to split hairs, we could throw in different religions which, of course, prescribe to a specific ceremony, but for the most part those two cover the majority of weddings held in Korea.

The traditional wedding is always fun to watch. I had a traditional Korean wedding myself and still love going and watching them if I happen to run into one. They're just that fun. The rest of the weddings that I have been to have been in wedding halls. These are fast, loud and busy affairs where best friends are sitting in the back joking around and talking on their cell-phone as the parents look on -totally expressionless- while the bride is crying uncontrollably. Seriously, I don't like the wedding hall weddings and I don't think I need to say much more to show the contrast between Western and Korean weddings.

If you want a pretty solid summary of weddings and marriage in Korea, Wikipedia offers a pretty comprehensive look at what's going on.

Now, you mentioned clothes and gifts. With clothes, dress seasonally and formally just as you would at home, but as far as a gift goes, it's better to give cash rather than an item. Money is the biggest concern for newlyweds and since some Korean men and women have such unrealistic expectations when it comes to finances, you'll never ever go wrong with a cash gift.

The amount depends on how close you are to the bride/groom. When you walk into the wedding hall or venue, you'll see a table probably sporting an oversized photo along with the name of the soon-to-be-spouses. (On a side note, my wife and I took pictures for over eight hours straight. The pictures turned out great, but it was exhausting to say the least.)

How much money to give?

The standard rate used to go as follows...

* 30,000 won for an acquaintance or someone you're not too close with.

* 50,000+ won for a co-worker or friend.

* 100,000+ for family and old friends (Koreans typically stay in close contact elementary, middle and high-school pals).

Now, however, with the introduction of the 50,000 won note, the minimum has unofficially risen to 50,000 won and, while some people might use the old standard still, it's safe to assume the all the numbers have been adjusted accordingly. Some people even consider how much money to give based on how certain they are the newlyweds will return the favor when it's their turn to get married. For this reason, many Koreans dislike peak seasons because of the high costs.

The method for payment is simple. Go to 711 and buy some celebratory (or just plain) white envelopes. Stuff some cash in it and write your name on the outside. When you arrive at the venue, hand it to the collection table, sign the book and they'll give you a ticket which will get you into the buffet either before, during or after the ceremony. If you're a little late, then wait to go into the buffet until after the post-wedding pictures have been taken. (I've always had a suspicion that the only reason some people attend these things is to get in the picture. Why else would everyone be so rude and talk during the actual ceremony?)

I always encourage people to go to weddings and it never hurts to be a part of something that is so important to your boss. As far as money goes, I think you'd be safe slipping in 30,000 and calling it a day. After all, you're new to the whole thing, so a 20,000 won (faux) mistake is harmless, right?

Where do young Koreans go for sex?

Here's the question:

I have a short question: Where do young Koreans go to have sex? I mean, they all live with their parents, right?

Short question with a long answer. I'm going to broaden the scope of the question by expanding "sex" to include all forms of hanky panky.

You are correct that Koreans tend to live with their parents until marriage. There are exceptions to that (moving to Seoul from X small/country city, divorced parents, good job, long commutes etc...) and more and more Koreans are choosing to move out, but the norm is still to stay at home, especially considering housing costs. The Grand Narrative has an excellent write-up on Flatting, Premarital Sex and Cohabitation in Korea, so check that out for sure. I can't any solid "First Age of Sex" surveys on Korea, but I did find this one.



I took the average of the East Asian countries in the survey and hit close to 18 which is just above the global average. I don't have any reasons to think that Korea is that much different than their neighbors, but I'm sure some of you Korean sociologists might be able to add some thoughts.

So, with all of these people living at home, it begs the question as to where they are going to have a little consensual fun. We know that the people in or beyond their late 20's (with money and a little courage) can simply stop by their friendly neighborhood love motel when the urge hits, but what about the rest of the youngsters? Going to a love motel is pretty suggestive, a little more pricey and if people just was a little over-the-shirt lovin', a motel might be too much.

There are options...

DVD Rooms

Judging by the name, these places seem quite innocent, but once you walk in the door and find a bed or huge bed-like couch where the standard couch used to be as little as five years ago, that innocence disappears. I can't find the link, but a few weeks ago, I saw a survey on Naver which said that the number one place for "college students to have sex for the first time" was in DVD rooms. Korea Times also has an article mirroring those results. They're cheap, sound harmless and carry less of a stigma than the love motel.

Noraebang

Like the DVD rooms, the noraebang typically offers privacy, low prices and very little shame. A young couple can go in there and sing, dance, smoke, drink and smooch as much or little as they want.

Love Motels

You all know the love motels by now. I wrote about them and Brian loves to write about them. They come fully equipped with lotions, condoms, tissues, overly fancy shower and bathing facilities and, of course, softcore Korean porn to help the shy young lovers get in the mood. While going to these places might be a bit intimidating for first-timers, the sheer seediness will take care of that apprehension. They're also pretty cheap and oftentimes have hourly rates.

The Park

Don't believe me? Go to Hangang Park late at night on the weekends. Not only will you see the sex-starved twenty-somethings snuggling all day under their blankets in plain view, but when the sun goes down, the action can get a little more heated. No, there are not people getting too wild or anything, but there certainly is something going on. The LGBT scene has got some different rules. I've talked about it a lot on Ask the Expat, but Korea Beat has a good amount on the subject as well.

I'm sure there are a whole host of other spots that I don't know about either as it changes from generation to generation. For instance, the older generation used to head to the drive-in theaters. I'm pretty sure there was no Back Seat Betty's frequenting city overlooks, but it was certainly done one way or another in Korea. Another spot that you can still find around the country is a "dabang" (다방). Many of you will know these places as a discrete place where hookers entertain their guests, but many years ago (1970-80s), these places used to be more varied and innocent. There were the ones with ladies of the night and the ones where young couples could escape from the grips of their parents, drink coffee, chat, listen to a Korean DJ and even get a little close in partitioned cubicles. The latter aspect of the dabang is not seen anymore as they have been totally taken over by the sex industry or have changed themes completely.

So, the youngsters are out there and they appear to be having some success in finding a little privacy. Did I miss any?

Dating Co-Workers and Potential Risks

Here's the question:

I'm interested in my Korean co-teacher and I think she's into me. How should I handle this? Should I ask her out? What happens if the school finds out?

First of all, I'm not the guy to give dating advice (see Dear Abby). I would suggest talking to friends about that one. Remember, dating is dating and love is love. The rules that applied to romance and dating at home pretty much apply here. There is no turn-of-the-key pick-up line or gesture. Men and women are pretty much the same all over the world.

However, I think dating co-workers, regardless of where you are employed, always creates problems. In a school, it creates even more problems and dating a co-teacher in a Korean school has the potential to create the most problems. I wouldn't recommend it, but you might not be able to resist, so I'll try my best.

You should consider how this arrangment is going to effect your job and ability to teach well. I have a hard time believing that your attention would be on teaching and in the end, that's what you're here to do. The school is paying you, so it's your responsibility to do a decent job in the classroom.

Let's pretend for a minute that dating your co-teacher wouldn't interfer with your teaching ability. In most cases, you'd still need to keep it a secret from the school. Not only is the administration going to frown upon the relationship due to obvious problems that could arise, parents are not going to be thrilled about sending their kids into the love-nest either. Whether it be your co-workers, bosses or even students, someone is bound to find out and they are likely to spill the beans to someone who shouldn't know. If the school, principal or director thinks that the relationship is a big enough problem (regardless of what you think), someone could be fired or removed and I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't be the native teacher. Do you want that responsibilty?

And just think about it. What if you start dating and then break-up? This isn't a big corporate office where you can duck behind desks. This is a small shared classroom where communication is paramount. If you dated and broke up, what would happen? Would she have to quit? Would you? I think the whole thing is very risky and doesn't sound worth the potential stress.

Of course, love blinds logic and if you're really set on it, then you must be discreet. No long stares, unecessary touching or flirting in front of students, other teachers or your principal. That's just crazy.

I have a friend who has been dating his girlfriend for nearly 8 months. They don't work for a public school, but they still have problems. The powers that be have forbidden the relationship, moved them to separate institutes and now their relationship is heavily strained and destined to fail. I could come up with dozens of reasons why some schools dislike inner-school romance and some perhaps might have to do with the fact that many of them are between Korean women and foreign men, but I think the main reason is that once the relationship starts, work performance declines. Once that goes, students leave the school or complain about the classes. The rest is history.

I know that I'm painting a rather nasty picture here and there are probably tons of teachers who have managed the work/romantic relationship with relative ease, but I think a nice cold splash of reality never hurts anybody. I know that you're in Korea not only for work, but to live, learn and love. Still, your school cares about education and that should be important to all teachers as well.

Any personal stories out there?

Gay Saunas in South Korea

Here's the question:

I was told about these saunas that are like bathhouses and apparently they are everywhere in Korea. [I was told] HOT guys shower together, and rub each other in the shower. Is this true? How far EXACTLY do they go?

What's the type of legality on this, and as a foreigner with a large carriage, can I participate?

I remember reading about these places before coming to Korea and in my handbook, it referred to them as "bathhouses". Of course, bathhouses in the West are known for their popularity among gay/bi/curious cruisers, so I was a bit confused. In fact, if you type "bathhouses" into Google, the first result is a Wikipedia article on Gay Bathhouses. For the most part, the bathhouses, saunas or Jjimjilbang in Korea are, for the most part NOT cruising sites and certainly wouldn't be friendly to someone who tried to make them that way. I recommend reading Galbijims write-up on these saunas. It'll help you get a good feel for what's actually going on in these widely popular establishments.

I am not the biggest fan of the saunas in Korea. First of all, I don't like being hot for any period of time and throw that in with the high level of interest that foreign men (I can't speak for women) get when they enter these facilities, it makes for more stress than relief. However, I have a lot of friends who really enjoy it. In my experience, an overwhelming majority of the men in the saunas are older. Maybe it was the location I chose, but I didn't see many "hot guys" in there. Even if there were, it wouldn't make a difference. Cleanliness and relaxation are the goals, not sex or rubbernecking.

In fact, these places are viewed in such a non-sexual light that there was a recent television commercial innocently showing toddlers washing each other in what was supposed to be a public shower. I was shocked when I first saw it, but my Korean wife didn't think there was anything odd about it. She thought it was cute. There's also a popular Korean comedy show which takes place in a sauna. They sing, dance and play games.

There are some things that happen in Korea (just like any country) that simply don't make sense to me, but makes perfect sense to Koreans. A couple years ago, a few Korean friends and I were at a park and we saw two teenage boys massaging and rubbing each other. I assumed that they were gay and made a comment about it. My friends rejected my interpretation and claimed that the boys were helping each other relieve stress because high-school life in Korea can be very demanding. It doesn't matter why they were doing it though. The point was that many Koreans, unlike myself -an American, don't automatically assume that something is sexual or related to sexuality.

Take this for instance: I know many Koreans who semi-regularly visit the saunas with their parents and/or children and all of them routinely wash each others backs. When I first heard of people doing this, I was a little grossed out. I mean, imagining myself in such a situation with my father is almost enough to cause nausea, but it is viewed as a perfectly normal and perhaps even a bonding experience among our Korean brethren.

So, by all means go and enjoy the many saunas of the nation, but understand that nearly all of them have zero tolerance for sexual activity. If you start rubbing another man for any reason other than cleaning, I imagine a fist might be coming your way. I do think it would be a funny dare though.

Still, there are some places where you can go if you're looking for a place to cruise or find a little action. The highest concentration of LGBT bars and clubs reside in Jongno, Hongdae and Itaewon, so the gay saunas tend to be in and around those districts. Utopia Asia has a lot of information on gay culture and hotspots in Korea and they have an interesting page on gay saunas as well. Make sure to take a look at what it has to offer, but I want to use a couple comments from the site.

"Went to Mun Hwa last Sat nite around 1:30am...Man, it was full. It's a good place for people who are into older men of 30+...I had a good time. Just lie down and guys will be on you in no time. They don't play safe, so carry lube and condoms...The sauna was filthy and so were the toilets."

...and...

"If you enter Bosuk, you will feel like you are in a regular straight sauna, and it probably is...until you go to the sleeping area. You will get to see some action, although quite discreet. Normally at the 1/F sleeping area or in the hidden corner on 2/F. Just lay down and pretty soon someone will lay next to you, although I don't see how things can go far here as there are many straight people sleeping as well! BTW, no foreigners here, so you can get very spotlighted."

Two totally different takes on the scene. I'm sure after visiting a few places, one would understand the system a little bit more, but what it sounds like is that very few of the places are advertised as "Gay Saunas". As the other posters on that site mentioned, you must be discreet since there is a mix of straight men sleeping and gay/bi men cruising. You might be able to find a place with private rooms, but I think most places are going to offer public sleeping rooms which are frequently checked by staff. Again, South Korea does not have any laws against homosexuality (aside from military service), so the staff is not looking for criminals. They're just trying to keep their sauna from becoming a hotspot for such activity.

I also found it interesting that so many people claimed that Korean men didn't carry or use protection. For a nation that spends a lot of time telling its people that foreigners have AIDS, I would think that having unprotected sex in bathhouses with foreigners would be unheard of. Then again, contraception in Korea is an interesting topic unto itself.

So, ultimately, you are not going to be walking into a shower or sauna full of young, "hot guys". From what most of the comments over at Utopia said, you'll most likely be walking into a dark, quiet sleeping room full of older men that may or may not be willing to give a big foreigner a chance. Now, I'm sure there are some hidden places in Itaewon that will work just fine for you, but I think it's better to paint the sauna scene is Korea as a very non-sexual one that is for cleaning and relaxing, rather than romance and cruising.

Like my last post on gay behavior in Korea, I hope that some readers might be able to add their thoughts. They were quite valuable last time.

Korean Men: Flirting or Friendly

Here's the question:

Let's say you are an expat woman, and a Korean man is being very... friendly. So friendly that, if you were back home, you would think said Korean was hitting on you, but you just want to be friends. Are there certain signs to look for to tell the difference between being friendly and hitting on you in Korean culture? I have heard that Korean men are used to having to work hard for a Korean woman, because they like to play games and make a guy work for it.

First of all, many Korean men are shy with women (or at least not as forward as some Western men), so I must congratulate your friend on that. Unfortunately for him, it doesn't sound like it's getting him anywhere.

While I have heard that some Korean women play games (my wife didn't luckily), I think this one can be summed up by The Korean. In short he says, "Korean men are men BEFORE they are Korean." If they are flirting with you and you're getting the same vibe you did at home, well, then chances are they're into you.

Some Koreans like to talk about the "cultural differences" when it comes to interracial relationships if they were so stark that even considering such a relationship would be foolish. (There are reasons for this, but that is not the question, so I will not address that now.) My wife is Korean and while I can admit there are some "differences" that have arisen, they are not nearly as toxic as some Koreans would like you to think.

Additionally, I think I should briefly mention the amount of pressure young Korean men and women feel to get married. If they are single and nearing the age of 30, this pressure kicks into overdrive. This is something to consider if you were to get involved with the man in question. He might want (or need) to move much faster than you would like. It sounds like you want to be friends, so it might be best to tell him that. However, it could lead to an almost immediate end of the friendship if you don't do it right. He might be embarrassed by the rejection or it might be that having a playful and flirtatious relationship with a non-Korean "girl-friend" (and I mean friend-girl) is not something that his next serious girlfriend is going to tolerate, especially if she's Korean.

Not the greatest place to be in, but just treat it as you would if he was from the West and you should be fine.

If anybody has any questions, just send me an email at asktheexpat@yahoo.com or leave a comment.